If John Green is your favorite author, you have lots of company. His writing has a way of making you feel like you and only you are his audience. Like only you can have that relationship, with that world, with those characters.
For people with OCD—people like Green and myself—it can be rare to get that feeling from a book, movie, or TV show. Too often, when OCD is represented in popular media, it can end up making us feel even more disconnected, stigmatized, and misunderstood.
Green’s groundbreaking 2017 novel Turtles All The Way Down was an instant classic in the OCD community, and for good reason. For many people with OCD, reading the book was the very first time they saw their experiences reflected accurately and empathetically. In 2024, Green’s story is creating buzz in the community once again, with a new movie adaptation streaming on Max May 2nd.
We at NOCD are incredibly proud to partner closely with John Green, and we announced our partnership at the world premiere of Turtles All The Way Down last weekend in Los Angeles. NOCD’s CEO and co-founder Stephen Smith, Chief Clinical Officer Patrick McGrath, and Community Engagement Specialist Tia Wilson joined Green at the premiere with a shared purpose: to educate people about OCD, combat misinformation, and help them get better by working with therapists who specialize in OCD. Green is living proof that specialized treatment can change lives, and Turtles All The Way Down brings many aspects of his inspiring journey to the screen.
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Tia and I sat down yesterday to discuss what Turtles All The Way Down does differently than other popular representations of OCD, and why this is such a pivotal moment for the OCD community.
Peter: As NOCD’s community engagement specialist, you’ve spent so much time with the OCD community, and you’ve told such powerful stories from your own experience. Do you think people with OCD will see their own journeys reflected in Turtles All The Way Down?
Tia: I really do. In fact, I’d say that it may have been the first time I’ve truly seen my experience with OCD reflected in a movie.
One thing you learn from engaging with people in the community is that OCD feels so isolating—like you’re cut off from the world in your own head—but it can actually impact everyone around you, too. So when we watch Aza, the main character, we see the way OCD keeps her from feeling present, from listening, from connecting with people. Despite having wonderful relationships, she feels so alone.
When I was younger and tried to look to the future, I saw no hope of ever having a relationship, a stable job, or my own place to live. So there were a lot of times when I saw myself as I watched Aza struggle. She worries she will have to rely on her mom forever. She cuts her dreams short because it’s more “realistic.” She can’t share her hopes with the people she knows best.
You and I both struggled with OCD for a long time, and we’ve both gotten our lives back through exposure and response prevention (ERP) therapy. So we both know that when OCD is portrayed in popular culture, it’s often inaccurate. What does the movie version of Turtles All The Way Down do differently that makes it ring so true?
The story truly paints OCD as a human condition. Often, you’ll see popular media treat OCD as nothing more than a set of habits—as if it turns on while someone is counting their steps or washing their hands, and then it turns off when they’re not.
But you and I both know that’s not how it works. In Turtles All The Way Down, we really witness how OCD affects Aza’s self-image, her self-talk, her friendships. It’s part of her life in some obvious ways and some hidden ones, and we get to see them all. So while we do see some of the things most people associate with OCD, like Aza repetitively washing her hands, we see them in a more human context.
Despite how it feels, Aza is not the only person in her world struggling. We see her recognize that OCD has narrowed her perspective and that she can be dismissive of the struggles of the people around her. OCD is a disorder that makes Aza different, but it also makes her the same. Her struggles make her human.
OCD is a disorder that makes Aza different, but it also makes her the same. Her struggles make her human.
Tia Wilson, Community Engagement Specialist at NOCD
That’s really interesting—just by creating a really well-rounded main character, the movie builds a connection with the OCD community.
Exactly! She’s not an “OCD character”—she’s just a complex, human one.
Do you feel that the human portrayal of OCD will help the movie connect with other people, as well? People who might not really understand OCD going into it?
Abso-lutely. All people understand fear, distress, overwhelm, fatigue—they know what it’s like to feel demoralized and alone. They just might not understand OCD. So by experiencing all those things that come with Aza’s OCD, you get a full picture of how the condition works and feels.
And as a coming-of-age story, there are so many opportunities for viewers to connect emotionally with what she’s going through. She’s just a kid, with so many things going for her, but intrusive thoughts do not discriminate. OCD can and does impact everyone, at any time, in any place. And more often than not, it’s at the worst times—like when she’s about to kiss a cute boy. Little details like these are so accurate, and they’ll hit home for anyone, with or without OCD.
That’s so important. It seems like only very recently have people outside the OCD community become aware that OCD involves intrusive thoughts. Like you mentioned: most people associate OCD with counting steps, washing hands. But there’s so much more under the surface.
Exactly. And I’m actually so glad you mentioned that, because the movie meets people where they are. It connects the dots between the way most people think of OCD and the other ways it works in real life.
So, as I mentioned, we do see Aza struggling with one of the most well-known compulsions—hand washing—very prominently in the film. But we also see Aza engaging in lesser-known compulsions like Googling to get rid of uncertainty, asking for reassurance, isolating herself, and avoiding social interactions.
And the most illuminating part might be the glimpse we get into her mental compulsions. We see Aza ruminating, providing reassurance for herself, and even using self-punishing statements in response to her intrusive thoughts and fears. These things are going to feel spot-on to people who have experienced OCD, and they’re going to open other people’s eyes to what OCD is really like.
Obviously, seeing someone struggle with OCD is pretty heavy. For people who are living and suffering with OCD right now, or who love someone who’s struggling, will Turtles All The Way Down provide any sense of hope or optimism?
Yes, totally! The whole arc of the film comes around, full circle, to hope.
The very first scene shows Aza in her therapist’s office, saying that she doesn’t think anything will work for her. I always say that OCD wants you to think you’re the exception to the rule. It loves to say things like “ERP will work for anyone… except for you. The only way to feel better is to keep doing these compulsions.”
OCD wants you to think you’re the exception to the rule. It loves to say things like “ERP will work for anyone… except for you.”
Tia Wilson, Community Engagement Specialist at NOCD
What’s worse, OCD convinced me that I didn’t deserve hope or treatment, until I had actually gone through ERP. It was only in retrospect that I was able to see how deserving I was—how deserving everyone with OCD is.
When I led support groups for people going through NOCD Therapy, I saw this mindset in so many people. And on some level, being scared of treatment makes sense. You don’t want to fall flat on your face. And believe it or not, people with OCD are some of the most hope-filled people I know. There were people in support groups whose treatment journeys I witnessed from start to finish—they kept their hope alive, and they conquered OCD. They’ve just been let down by their own hope so many times—the hope that this one last compulsion will “fix” them.
John Green is living proof that you are more than your OCD, and that taking that first leap into ERP truly works—and this is really clear in Turtles All The Way Down. He’s been through it, he’s lived it, and he infuses so much personal vulnerability into Aza’s character. She has the mindset that nothing will help her, and yet she’s always searching for the magic bullet. Always holding out hope somewhere in her mind that this next compulsion will fix things. And from talking with John myself, I know that this is something that both of us have experienced in our own lives.
But as Aza learns, you can never rule out your ability to recover. The reality is that there is hope. Yes, even for you.
Turtles All The Way Down will be released on May 2, 2024 for streaming on Max.
If you or anyone you love is struggling with OCD, you’re not alone. NOCD Therapists have specialty training in OCD treatment, and we accept many major insurance plans. Reach out to us—we’re here to help.
